Toronto 🇨🇦 Nomad Engineer Emil! FAILing 137 times 🤕 problems creative people have 🙈 learning to talk to ANYONE 🙌🏻 (38)

Don’t Be Strangers * Podcast Show Notes

• Co-Host: Emil / Host: Xinyi Xan (@xinyixan)
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Welcome back to Don’t Be Strangers, a podcast and community focused on fighting adult loneliness by deepening our connections with ourselves and others. **If you’re into personal development and believe there’s something to be learned from everyone, then you’re in the right place. I’m your host XinYi, and I typically meet my co-hosts for the very first time while recording! If this sounds fun to you, please consider applying to co-host a future episode.

I am diligently trying to clear my backlog of recordings from last year so that I can start recording new episodes again, and I’m proud to say I’m basically all caught up. After this, I have one more episode from last year, and then I’ll feel situated to re-evaluate the direction of my podcast. If you’ve been here from the beginning, you’ll know that very quickly this project transformed a podcast to more of a community. And speaking of communities, the co-host today is actually from another community I’m part of for digital nomads.

I had never spoken to Emil prior to this call, but I had put out a post asking for co-hosts in the digital nomad community Slack channel and that’s how we connected! Just from first impressions, I loved how candid Emil was regarding his failures. His approach to life is definitely very bold, but extremely inspirational. And the way he analyses and thinks about different situations is so fascinating, I felt like I learned a lot in the process of editing and reviewing this particular conversation. In it we cover…

• keeping things perfect, but in your head vs letting things change but making it reality
• how Emil failed 137 times in his job search before finally landing his current job
• conversations to have in romantic relationships, especially as a nomadic soul
• is it possible to learn how to talk to anyone?
• how to create value from connecting with others

With that, please meet Emil…

Transcript

00:02.22 Emil hi my name is ah Emile case. Oh do you want to? do you want to do the intro. My bad. Do you have your intro bit before it just me I life like up. Ah again I’ll give it a little bit of silence.

00:17.75 Emil Um, hi. My name is Emil Ks I am a software consultant for a Chicago based um Javascript consultancy or firm agency is probably the better word. Um, and I’ve been a digital med on and off for a couple years. Um, and yeah, currently I’m working there and right now just traveling around for the foreseeable future right now just chilling in Spain 10 or efe and to start off this ah podcast I get oh what? my god.

00:43.72 xinyixan How long have you been the already and see this is like my bad habit like I already have questions but go ahead, go ahead.

00:55.90 Emil I was like I’m ready. Um, no, it’s all good. Ah, one of the first things I Actually really want to ask is like you’re actually kind of at a super interesting stage with what you’re doing and I’m like how are you feeling now that you’re in like this like middle of growing like you’re scaling a community. Um, and I like there’s a lot of questions that people have like ask themselves as they’re doing or scaling up because this kind of feels almost like a business but kind of not um, like do you feel like you’re taking the right steps. Do you feel like there are right steps even or is it just like a I’m doing my thing.

01:28.38 xinyixan Um, yeah I definitely feel like ah feel like I have no idea what I’m doing I feel like that’s a pretty typical response but the thing was like I started this project initially just as a podcast purely.

01:34.58 Emil Any.

01:41.93 xinyixan Because I was like oh I like talking to people and I like talking to strangers I like deep conversations. So let’s just let’s just try this and see where it goes and then I think a couple months into it I was like this is really really cool, but frustrating because.

01:47.10 Emil E.

01:59.28 xinyixan I think I have a tendency to want to connect people and so even though I was connecting with people through the podcast like I had the advantage of speaking to these strangers. It wasn’t exactly as if anyone else was making connections right? like the listeners would just like listen to us. But it’s not necessarily like they’re.

02:05.21 Emil Oh.

02:18.20 Emil A.

02:18.52 xinyixan Making a connection with me or with like my co-host and so out of that I started a digital pen pals club just to like kind of bring back long format writing um and then ah that kind of turned into a Discord channel and then.

02:25.65 Emil A.

02:35.10 Emil If I.

02:37.88 xinyixan Now it’s more of a community and I try to focus primarily on the community first and like the podcast is just like what started it but it’s just more like the supporting fun side project now. Honestly I think of it more as like the side thing than the main thing but in terms of scaling. Yes, there’s been like a lot of struggles.

02:51.25 Emil A.

02:57.41 xinyixan Um, I constantly feel I mean like like you mentioned it’s kind of like running a business except that it’s like nonprofit because literally it’s just all like volunteer right? exactly And um.

03:03.79 Emil Um, yeah, it’s just for people. Yeah.

03:13.31 xinyixan Yeah I think scaling is something that I keep thinking about because my end goal is to have this be a like global I mean it already is global but like globally known um resource for people to find and create their own communities.

03:23.24 Emil Yeah.

03:30.14 Emil 8

03:32.90 xinyixan Because my target audience were like my target I Guess my ideal customer persona If we’re going to be like technical or whatever um, are adults who are students of life and very open-minded and obviously into deep questions.

03:41.30 Emil Ah, okay, ah.

03:51.66 xinyixan And so um, with that in mind I am also hoping to create like physical city chapters all around the world. So yes, like first and foremost it will be like a virtual platform where people can like plug in and then find other people from around the world. But then.

04:01.57 Emil Um, any.

04:09.40 xinyixan Ideally, you would also be able to find people where you are at like in Spain for example and then be able to say like hey let’s meet up because we met each other through dumpy strangers and then maybe create like a physical city chapter of some sort. Um.

04:21.78 Emil Um, yeah.

04:26.26 xinyixan Primarily targeting people who are not digital nomads but digital nomads can also take advantage of people in different cities as well. Yeah.

04:32.71 Emil Ah, have you ever heard of like there’s a networking event called fuckup nights and so it basically started if I’m recalling it and I apologize to the person who organizes it in Toronto the city where I’m from. Um.

04:37.16 xinyixan No I haven’t.

04:49.60 Emil She was saying that like it started in like Mexico City and it was just like a bunch of people that would go like they’re kind of creating businesses and kind of failing so they’d meet up for like tequila or mescal or something and then they would keep talking about like their failures and so the fuck up knights is really just talking about really failures. And it slowly like grew into like this sort of event because there were other kind of business people and um, she eventually like ended up attending one of them in like Mexico she’s like yeah this is so amazing I’m going to start doing one in Toronto and like for me that was like probably 1 of the best events like I go to. Because it’s 3 speakers each of them are telling you about random stuff that’s going on it could range you have no idea what they’re going to talk about like it could be like I lost $10000000 or it could be like I just broke up with an x at this terrible time and I was doing this and this happened and like could be so like emotionally gripping it could be so many different things you have no idea what to expect. Um, but it’s it’s really a lot of fun and like that community grew basically from that Mexico event really and then now it’s like worldwide like it’s like all over the place. So like now like ah the person that runs it I think Marsha she but that’s only like Toronto. Still like freaking 500 probably other people just like doing these events is that something that you see like you kind of want to be doing like kind of extending it in that sense.

06:16.16 xinyixan Yeah, definitely like ideally there would be people within the community that organically like oursha is that her name um like Marcia marcha um, where someone like Marcia would find or like a ten one of.

06:24.63 Emil Marcia.

06:31.86 xinyixan My events and be like okay like I want to kind of champion this somewhere else. So yes, like because I don’t want to be I don’t want to be the one who’s like a I although I could also I mean there’s so many different ways that you could do this right? but but I think ideally.

06:33.19 Emil Um, exactly.

06:44.89 Emil Ah, you like I’ll do everything if I need to do everything I’ll do ah.

06:50.98 xinyixan People would just like resonate with the message and um, want to like carry it forward? Um, so yeah, that’s like the you know, go ahead.

06:53.52 Emil Um, yeah, do you ever feel like if yeah sir do you ever feel like if somebody takes like continues a message that you created but like if the message that they do. Changes or like they put forth changes. Do you feel like the original idea gets lost a little bit or do you feel like that’s just part of the process. This is something I ask a lot of creatives by the way.

07:17.95 xinyixan I I would be really I I think it would really depend on the the scope of the collaboration I’m super down for big kid energy which is like my man mantra for life which um is.

07:29.40 Emil A.

07:35.46 xinyixan Basically stems off the idea of play. So You know if you’re doing it. Whatever changes you’re doing intentionally and from a good place then like go for it because. Because if you’re taking the message and like you’re putting your spin on it then I think that’s really really cool. Um, but if you’re taking it and like trying to defame it like then I guess like obviously that’s kind of disrespectful so I would be hurt.

07:53.26 Emil A a.

08:07.25 Emil Yeah, makes sense I think it’s it’s something that every um like I’ve been doing a lot of writing for a bit and I always struggled with like trying to ask for help. Um and it was always like this thing where like if I have somebody collab on something like writing for example. Felt like the original idea might be changed and like there’s like the creative part of me I was like that’s my baby like don’t change it. It needs to be exactly how I thought it and I was like thinking one night because I was so overwhelmed like I had to become like an art director.

08:29.51 xinyixan Right? right? right? right? and.

08:39.70 Emil Very quickly and I was like I don’t know what to do about art here’s a photo here’s a description I Hope you get it right? and like I don’t want to be too dickish on like people’s times I’m kind of like yeah I think it’s good like it’s not good but I don’t know what to tell you? Um, but I worried like at least with art.

08:52.69 xinyixan Um, ah right.

08:55.95 Emil I could imagine a picture I could see if it’s good or bad but writing is kind of like did it carry forth the same message and I felt like um, but it’s like you you sometimes reach a point where it’s like do you want this thing to be a reality but keep it perfect or sorry if do you want this to be um. Ah reality. But other people are going to change it like you need help inevitably to do it or do you want to keep it perfect but in your mind but it might never come to the real world like it’ll always be perfect but in a box.

09:19.10 xinyixan Right.

09:26.44 xinyixan Right? right? right? right? Ah yeah I feel like that. Um that resonates with that message of like better done them perfect right? Oh um I think I totally understand like where you’re coming from.

09:31.27 Emil Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

09:42.97 xinyixan As like a fellow creative but I think I intentionally built the don’t be strangers branding so that it would be extremely flexible even with like the graphic designs if you go into the Instagram page and like scroll all the way back. You’ll see that it’s like drastically changed because the.

09:48.90 Emil A.

10:02.55 xinyixan In terms of like brand design. The only things that I that keeps the branding consistent is I have picked 2 colors yellow and green and I don’t even say like what shade of yellow or green is just yellow green and this like smiley face that I found.

10:15.59 Emil A.

10:18.40 xinyixan And so it’s like if you keep it Yellow green with a smiley face I don’t care what font you use like whatever. So um, more recently a time I did ask for some people to like volunteer their time and join my team and some people were so gracious and they have.

10:20.15 Emil Yeah, yeah, yeah.

10:29.46 Emil A.

10:35.50 xinyixan Um, and I remember the first time where I was like yeah like make a design for me like we need this post. Um I was a little nervous because I was like oh yeah, like it’s not gonna be touched by me anymore and then they they returned it and like.

10:43.87 Emil Um, yeah.

10:49.80 xinyixan It’s not how I would do it but it is yellow green. It has like the smiley face that I’m like ah you know ultimately it will fit in with the you know with the fee. So um and that’s totally fine because I would rather.

10:54.11 Emil Ah, yeah.

11:05.72 xinyixan I would rather be able to be open to collaboration than to like you know than to force myself to do everything alone because I think I thrive on I I really thrive on collaboration like I Really love like the back and forth like synergy and energy through like conversation and stuff and that is like.

11:10.90 Emil Um, yeah, yeah.

11:23.29 xinyixan More rewarding to me than to like have everything perfect and done by me. You know I would rather sacrifice a bit of like my own voice to be able to um yeah to kind of like feed off of other people’s energy.

11:25.88 Emil Yeah.

11:36.25 Emil Yeah, like I always worry because like there’s like the Zach Snyder like justice league as like a good example where it’s like that a director had a specific like thing in mind and ah, another director basically took over completely changed the film. Everybody hated it. But it’s like your name is now attached to something that people hate. But I got out there and you could potentially that for like a bit and I was like man like making movies can be tough like ah I mean just like other than like a process but I was just like damn like being a creative can be rough like you could work your whole life and be like they’re like hey this is what you want to do doesn’t matter. We’re gonna pay you like. Say $10000000 to do something else and be like ah ah a transformers movie with explosions and cars. Ah Michael Bay Michael Bay ah that world was Michael Ba which just explosions and stuff and you’re like oh but what about my dialogue like people don’t care about that here’s $10000000 this movie instead and if you were like we hate this and you’re like. But it’s not what I wanted but it’s sort of what I wanted but ah also is that your walls and what you’re wearing matches the colors like I don’t know if that was intentional but I was like so on brand these colors and I was like I could.

12:34.80 xinyixan Um, yeah, yeah.

12:48.41 xinyixan Ah, for the listeners who can’t us.

12:51.43 Emil See where you could find those colors I see Yellow I see green.

12:54.35 xinyixan Ah, for the listeners who can’t see what I’m wearing I’m wearing like this lime green Green Sweater and my walls are actually I didn’t pick this color. They just came with the house that we bought and like we were just too lazy to like repaint it. But it’s like I actually hate this color. It’s like this. Off Sorbet Orange Yellow Like honestly I Just wish it was like plain white so it just makes like a more neutral background. But yeah, um.

13:12.42 Emil Ah, yeah.

13:18.93 Emil Oh my god I used to have my walls back home are all white so during calls like people would make jokes like yo. You should like put up a painting I was like listen man this is a rental I don’t know if I’m allowed to put up a painting. So I’d make a joke I was like yeah this is just my 15 minutes in my insane asylum you know, like just enough for the call and then I go back to my full white room and I was like that’s why I never show you guys the rest of the room because you guys it’s all white. It’s the same thing. Ah, but yeah, sorry I catch you off what we gonna say.

13:49.66 xinyixan Um, I wanted to like learn more about like just your story because you mentioned that you are from Toronto but you’re working for a company based in Chicago and then like now you’re traveling. Um, do you mind just kind of connecting some of the dots like yeah, how did you get.

13:56.58 Emil Um, yeah.

14:04.93 Emil Yeah, um, ironically ties into the theme of fuck up nights because I fucked up is the best way I could start um I was like working for a startup in Toronto and I was like you know, Toronto’s the best best city in the world I still think it’s the best city in the world in the summer just not when it’s fucking cold.

14:07.40 xinyixan Here.

14:20.64 xinyixan So.

14:21.78 Emil So um, I was waiting for a startup and this is back in like the blockchain space. So maybe like four years ago 2017 2018 and then the startup basically ran out of funding and I was like man I’m so stressed I haven’t taken a break I took one like vacation to like South Korea where like my friend was like a student. For like ten days and somehow he was a part of like an all women’s university and one of like 10 guys in a 22000 women’s school and I was like what is going on so I came in and this is a different world entirely There’s a bunch of international students from everywhere. Um Creo is amazing like actually got this ring.

14:53.00 xinyixan Um.

15:01.50 Emil I mean I would not to put my middle finger up. but ah but I always pick up Julia River ago so that was only break I had but during that time I was sold like stress free I was walking around doing stuff and when I quit I was like yo I want to travel and I’m gonna become a freelancer like that’s what I’m gonna do.

15:04.52 xinyixan Um, yeah.

15:19.87 Emil I know that my company owes me a bunch of money but who cares? um I’m gonna try to do it so no plan I was like I’m gonna sublet my apartment for six months let’s go um I somehow looked my way into like 2 contracts and I was like all right I’m making money a little bit. Let’s like.

15:24.95 xinyixan Um.

15:37.67 Emil Everything done so I was like working from home for the first time and I was like shit like can I do it I had no laptop because I was used to my workhop like my work providing me a laptop so I was like working up for my desktop computer at home and I was like oh my god I can’t go to an office I have to work for my home. What will I do and then now that’s literally all I do so it’s kind of funny. Um. But I ended up like joining the wi-fi tribe around then and I had heard about it from a friend and her colleague and then like I set everything up for me to go to this like Barcelo in a chapter for a month and then I was like oh my god the chapter is full like once I got the funds and I was like what do I do I was like fuck just go anyways like just go. So I went and I was there for five weeks and I was just like alone and like as a dude alone in a foreign country. No one will talk to you? Absolutely no one so you’re in this big city I’m just like oh no, what do I do so I did what any 24 year old or 23 year old would have done. And I just went to pub crawls every night and met a bunch of people that way and every night I kept doing that and then during the day I’d study and work do l stuff so doing that for a while I joined like this Costa Rica chapter afterwards and it was so amazing. We’re in inside the Teresa which is a nice little beach. Um, but it’s super touristy. Everything was actually surprisingly expensive. Went into debt while there which is really jokes and then one of the tribebers. Um I been like hey man like this company like I used to work for I think probably hiring like what you’re doing like are you free and I was like single beat of sweat on my forehead like.

17:10.30 Emil Try to play it cool like yeah yeah, if you want to send it over. Yeah, you could also knew my resume and I was kind of like yo I need this so I came back homeless in debt ah like probably 3 or 4 grand and I was like living at home I was like oh my god life sucks. Um.

17:10.83 xinyixan Um.

17:30.57 Emil And then honestly like I hadd to give myself like a long timeline or like a month or 2 to like figure it I was like okay if you want remote work. Gotta find it. Gotta do your thing. Um and I had to give myself a deadline cause I wasn’t finding it I had I still have the spreadsheets like maybe 137 like different jobs and I was like oh my god like. I’m never gonna find it. It’s never gonna happen. Um, yeah, like did interviews for nothing like it was just I was like a lot of failure. It was a lot of failing so I just getting used to it and I was like all right, whatever it is what it is um.

17:52.10 xinyixan Like these are a hundred thirty seven jobs you’ve applied for and no one replied. Oh my god yeah.

18:08.51 Emil No problem probably finding something in Toronto but I specifically want to remote people come to me. They’re like yo you’re amazing. You’re awesome I’m like I know and they’re like but and I was like all right here we go. They’re like but we need you in the office and I’m like now that’s not where am I right now is all pre pandemicmic. So.

18:21.80 xinyixan Um, was this all pre pandemicdemic I’m guessing like what before. Okay.

18:27.12 Emil Ironically so like came back to me that company that my friend or the tribe kind of referred to me. Um, they came back for like a three week contract and I was like theyre like are you free I was like buck ya I’m free I need the money did it did it for 3 weeks I was so panicking and the first week that I got it.

18:41.45 xinyixan Um.

18:45.70 Emil I was living in Toronto I had to rent a space for a month and we were going out I was like oh my god things are sort of like kind of getting back to normal pandemic hits March Seven March Seventeenth Twenty nineteen and I was like I go finally oh well, it’ll only be a month right? He asked unknowingly.

18:57.20 xinyixan Are.

19:04.71 Emil Um, so three weeks are done I up working for firm in ah Croatia and I was like oh that’s like they reached out to me. It was like thank god I have like a job finally and then they were 6 hours ahead and I was like guys I’m going to move to Europe no problem. This is easy. That’s what I want to be doing pandemic never ended. Freaking Toronto lockdown like 6 times and like after three months I was like guys like I can’t wake up at 6 or like 5 in the morning these guys work 12 hours so like whatever they’re doing. They’re ahead and they were very. They’re probably like the cleanest coders I’ve ever seen in my life. Also the most nitpicky but I was like damn these people are amazing.

19:39.37 xinyixan And.

19:44.28 Emil I moved to Croatia I would have lived right next to the cto and I wouldve just come to this house every day I wouldve learned a lot but I was in toronto 6 hours behind so none of that happened I like left and then like the american firm got back to me and they’re like hey um we have another contract and I was like nah I’m not doing a contract you’re gonna hire me. You know, hire me full time and they’re like all right we we’ll do it. We’ll do it and I was like and I’ve been there ever since. So it’s been about like 2 years more or less. Um, but we’ve been locked down for a lot of this so about a year and a half off and on and then I got into relationship during that time.

20:03.51 xinyixan Um.

20:11.29 xinyixan Nice.

20:21.80 Emil And then I was like oh still early. Let’s not travel yet and then like it got to about a year and I was getting really depressed in the winter I was like I’m working from home. This sucks. Um and I wasn’t meeting as many people as I normally do and the older you get. You know, especially when you’re kind of butting your career. You really want to be branching out of doing a bunch of things and I wasn’t able to do that I felt like I was stagnating. Um, so I was like let’s push out of your comfort zone like I traveled for a month to Argentina back like this year and it was great it’s great for me. Not so good. Probably for my relationship but that’s okay, um. Because like I knew that this is something I wanted to be doing so I took I talked to my girlfriend and I was like listen something like you know that when we got into this is what we’re gonna do like at least three or four months of the year is what I want to do and it kept getting deflected and at one point I kind of had to come to terms I went to Amsterdam in the summer like ten days chatted with one of my friends I was like listen I don’t know what to do so I made a decision on my relationship and I was like this is a lifestyle want to live if that means that it’s incompatible with the person to have a candid conversation and do our thing so we we had a really vulnerable chat. We ended things parted like honestly, really amicably can all things considered um which was probably like a selfish maneuver on my end but it is what it is um and then I’ve been traveling ever since probably it’s been so since early september so now we’re like a month and a half in I’ve been in sevia madrid.

21:54.99 Emil Um, now I’m in teneriffe in Spain and then we might be heading to cape town next for like the rest of the year so who knows there’s a lot of yeah on story short long story long actually. Ah.

22:01.55 xinyixan Amazing! Amazing! Yeah, but no I Really appreciate like the full depth of like everything you covered there and also the vulnerability unlike the how much failure you had to go through to like get to. Like a point where you’re stable and stuff. Um, yeah, and also like the the note on the relationship stuff too. I think that it’s like so important to understand like what you want and like just to be clear about it because.

22:22.94 Emil Um, yeah.

22:30.29 Emil A.

22:34.51 xinyixan When you said that I was like selfish I don’t think so because I feel like it’s actually toxic to like keep yourself in a toxic to both yourself and your partner because basically you’re gonna like like keeping that in like having to contain the the. Part of you that wants to do this thing like traveling or or anything else that your relationship is not permitting you to do then you will probably just continue to like go down the the road of like depression or whatever which will negatively impact your partner which means.

23:09.20 Emil FF.

23:10.74 xinyixan You are by staying in that partnership like detriment like yeah like creating a worse circumstance for both of you So I don’t think it’s selfish at all.

23:21.46 Emil Yeah, it was something that I knew that it would breed resentment and it’s 1 thing that like everybody gets it’s nice because you get an example of a relationship with your parents whoops. Um, and that’s kind of like a bittersweet. It comes with trauma. Because you get to see all the stuff that your parents don’t like and I don’t mean trauma in a bad way. I mean traumas something could be as simple as my parents didn’t make breakfast every morning for example now I want to be the person that makes breakfast for my family like that’s not a bad thing. It’s just a little thing that you know you want to live differently. It comes with the trauma but it also comes with like hey. Got to see how it turned out whether you agree with how your parents maintained the relationship whether they didn’t um mind sort of have in this weird middle ground and like those are things that I get a chance to take away from be like I don’t want that I don’t want that I want that I want that and resentment was definitely something I don’t want.

24:12.42 xinyixan Um, yeah, yeah.

24:17.85 Emil Um, especially for someone that you know that you’d have no problem spending the rest of your life with you just kind of like yeah I don’t want to bring that negativity I don’t want to ruin a person for the sake of.

24:31.18 Emil Kind of just being self-right? Just being like oh everybody has to come before me and all that nonsense. It’s like yeah, it’ll come but like you have to make sure that you have lived a happy life too. So.

24:41.28 xinyixan Yep yep, love that? Um, do you want to ask me another question.

24:46.39 Emil I Mean like I have. Ah yeah I do so there was something like kind of on that line I mean like I guess you kind of mentioned that you and your partner basically like bought a house so like dating for you kind of I don’t know how often you digital Nomad now. Um, but I think that it’s always a hot topic.

24:54.69 xinyixan Um, sure.

25:03.75 Emil People are like Well how do you date when you’re traveling How has that changed for you? Um I guess like for you, you’ve been in your relationship for how long.

25:13.96 xinyixan Um, it’s been like a little over 2 years but we did not buy a house I’m actually at my parents’ house.

25:16.94 Emil Okay, okay, okay, all right? Um, sorry I think I I might have misheard my bad. Um, so one thing I was going to ask is. Might change my my original question because 2 years is a very good and interesting time. Um, and I think it’s ah it’s an important time for every relationship. Um, because like there’s a lot of candid questions that can come up like do you want kids? do you if you don’t want kids like when do you want them? Buy. Um, even something as simple as like. Do you care about the religion. They’re raised in. Um, what if something happens in your relationship and there’s a kid. Unexpectedly do you have a plan. Do you have all these things. Um I can tell you my perspective as a guy because I had to be the one to like worry about it. But.

25:54.98 xinyixan Um.

26:07.82 Emil I’m curious to hear your side of it like you’re kind of in the 2 year Mark which is like a significant milestone. So kudos to you but I’m also curious on your thoughts on that.

26:16.16 xinyixan Yeah, so to preface everything though I think it’s important to give this context that I’m actually a romantic So I think that means that it’s actually a bit difficult for me to understand. Romance Despite the fact that I’m part of this relationship now I think that’s helped a lot.. It’s actually made me more empathetic but um, given that romance doesn’t come to me naturally. Um I think I think that kind of that context needs to be set because like. I Never sought like romance and then this happened like very naturally and like after like if this ends ah which it could right like I don’t want it to end but it could end. Um I’m like completely comfortable with like dying alone because I’m completely comfortable by myself. Um.

26:58.13 Emil A.

27:05.98 Emil A.

27:08.71 xinyixan But for the context of the relationship. It started not very naturally as like a friendship and like when the friendship started happening like I think maybe one or two months into it I had like told him. Oh yeah, I’m thinking about moving to China for like 6 Months to further my language study so this as as we’re like developing our friendship. Um, we might be doing like long distance friendship and honestly speaking I’m not very good at long distance like anything like yeah like friendships like.

27:38.91 Emil Same.

27:43.51 xinyixan The the friends who have stayed my friends are the ones who are okay with like us catching up once every year or a couple of years like like if we can do that and it’s still strong then like that’s that’s how we’re still friends. Um, because I’m always in and out. Um, but that’s.

27:49.70 Emil Um, okay yeah.

28:01.20 xinyixan Like he already knew that like very quickly and early on into our friendship that he could have potentially lost me as a friend because who knows like what the the contact like what the contact would have been like um while I was there and that was happening I was planning that like summer of 2020 so obviously

28:08.76 Emil Um.

28:13.81 Emil Um, ah.

28:18.30 Emil You My guess.

28:21.16 xinyixan Ah, that didn’t happen because everything shut down. Um, so I think it was because I was like because we were locked down that like our friendship was able to develop into a relationship because otherwise I think like if if like Covid didn’t happen then I would have gone to.

28:25.60 Emil Ah, yeah.

28:31.77 Emil A.

28:41.11 xinyixan China and then like maybe maybe our relationship wouldn’t have developed um, that being said when he confessed to me he already knew that I was very romantic so like basically he was telling someone who couldn’t love them back that he loved me and then he also knew that like.

28:45.98 Emil Um.

28:56.29 Emil And.

29:00.57 xinyixan I I I won’t stay like based off of our friendship art and like who I am he already knew who he was getting involved with and so I was I told him I was like hey I’m as like an a romantic person. Feeling like they’ve lived their entire life like outside of the human experience because I could not like understand what romance is um I naturally have curiosity for like what this is and also I’m an artist and like I’ve seen the way that romance inspires art so like kind of selfishly I also want to know like what sort of art I could create if I could understand this like emotion. So 2 things like 1 just like wanted to be part of the human experience and then two like what could do this this do potentially for my art. Um I said look I like I had considered this in the past I would never do this to like. Accidentally psychologically traumatize someone by pretending I was in love with them just to get like this experience for my curiosity. Um, so all that being said, you know what? you’re walking yourself into um, would you want to try like an experimental relationship with me.

29:57.24 Emil Oh yeah.

30:10.10 xinyixan That’s how that conversation initially started. His response was um, essentially like if I say no then like I’ll always wonder um what it could have been and so that’s how it began and that being said like we traveled we were traveling together. Um.

30:19.58 Emil Um.

30:30.60 xinyixan Consistently on like the travel project that we were part of um when we became friends this was for work and we were traveling like consistently to Salt Lake city and then I started to take advantage of like alternative weekends which is just like flying to another city as opposed to like flying home to Dallas where I’m based and. And we did like a few trips together and we found that we were like super compatible travel partners which I think is pretty rare I think it’s pretty special when you find like a friend who is very compatible I don’t know about you but I am pretty like nitpicky in the way that I travel. So I don’t feel like I’m generally like square compatible with most people when it comes to travel. Um, so we already knew that and and then covid happened. We did like 1 really long like crazy train trip together in the middle of covid where we spent like.

31:08.80 Emil Yeah, walk.

31:24.58 xinyixan I guess almost ten days in a train across America just to get to like Portland from Dallas um, and then I think then like finally when things start to like reopen back up I did like three weeks in Chicago solo and then I asked him to come so he flew up for two weeks um with me.

31:27.00 Emil Um, holy Molly.

31:43.27 xinyixan And then that was like summer of 20 ah 2021 and then after that I joined wi-fi tribe and then I did almost three months out of the country without him so I did like a month in wahaca then we then like you know how the chapters you typically have like ah a week or so in between.

31:45.73 Emil Oh.

31:59.14 Emil A week in between. Yeah.

32:02.57 xinyixan Yeah, so like we met up in Mexico somewhere else and then I did another six weeks imply at Del Carmen and this week thus or this year thus far in 2022 I think I’ve only spent like a total of maybe three months here in the home base Dallas because I was like in Mexico City for like.

32:06.60 Emil Yeah.

32:16.58 Emil Oh wow.

32:22.31 xinyixan Three months at the beginning of the year with him I told him like because I was doing all those chapters in in Mexico I was like I know how much you love or you have a curiosity for living in Mexico we should just move like to to move to Mexico City for two and a half months and he had to like last minute.

32:34.31 Emil Yeah.

32:39.29 xinyixan Job search and switch jobs so that you get a job that will let him work remotely. Um and he was so it was really funny because I think he turned that around in like one month because I was like oh we’re going to Mexico City and he was like who’s we and I’m like us da like you and me like um and then.

32:39.71 Emil Oh wow.

32:56.12 xinyixan Um, he was like well I don’t have my job can’t and I was like well you just figure it out like whether or not you can come I’m going to Mexico City for three months and then you just figure it out and then um and then I did like on him I don’t think so because he had expressed to me.

33:06.55 Emil Do you feel like that was a lot of pressure to place. Yeah.

33:16.50 xinyixan Previously that he would love to like move to Mexico City for an extended period of time but I think the thing between the the difference. The yeah, the difference between our personalities is that he is not as likely to take action like if I want to do something like it’s happening whereas like he’s.

33:19.70 Emil Yeah.

33:34.85 xinyixan More of the time to be like oh yeah, it would be nice to like live in Mexico City one day and I’m like okay but when I think.

33:40.42 Emil Do you do you ever feel like the pressure of like okay to give you ah an example. So like that that might have not happened. Let’s say on that timeline but because you like kind of put the situation Forward. You made this person basically come not like in a bad way make but like. You initiated the event that they were like okay I’m going to figure out a way to do it. Um, and then you mentioned that like this person now changed jobs potentially which like I don’t know the full situation right? but that could be detrimental for someone. That’s not in a specific field or specific Industry. So I’m curious like do you look at it holistically from that point of view.

33:58.95 xinyixan Um, yeah.

34:10.30 xinyixan Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:16.51 Emil Or do you see it in the lens of like romanticism where it’s like oh it’s so romantic that this person figured out a way to do this thing so we could do this thing together.

34:23.97 xinyixan I Would do this thing regardless of whether he could or could not have changed jobs but generally speaking we were we agreed that his last place was not good for him like mental health wise and so he he wanted to like leave already but I felt like I just kind of.

34:36.13 Emil Um, yeah.

34:43.62 xinyixan Applied the pressure of like okay you should leave now or soon or faster.

34:47.39 Emil So then when when those like things happen and like after the fact, do you feel like there’s ah, there’s a give and take on like responsibility of those actions right? like let’s say he went to Ohio like Mexico and was like he had traveler’s diarrhea for half a time. He didn’t. Understand the language he felt like for whatever reason culture shock I mean for I mean rightful reason and to feel safe even stuff like that as someone who might be the leader of the relationship. Maybe not the leader but you know what I mean leading that charge in this regard. Um, right? like you.

35:08.69 xinyixan Um, yeah, um, but right? yeah.

35:19.83 Emil Do you feel like there’s a responsibility in that.

35:23.12 xinyixan Sure? um, surely I do look at the the situation as a whole and part of the reason why I applied pressure was because he has explicitly said that he wanted to go there. He’s actually half mexican or like a quarter Mexican and so there’s like cultural. And like yeah familial ties for this reason that he wanted to go. Um I have interest in like living in Asia for example for an extended period of time but I feel less likely to like involve him in that per se like I like.

35:54.81 Emil Um, and.

35:56.60 xinyixan Me saying like let’s move to Mexico City only occurred because he had told me explicitly before that he would love to at some point to do it for like an extended amount of time. Um like that. But then if I were to say like if I’m thinking like oh I would love to move to Taiwan for example temporarily. Um.

36:03.00 Emil So um, up.

36:16.75 xinyixan Wouldn’t apply that sort of pressure on him because he has never expressed any interest in like going to Taiwan or like learning the language and with the culture or anything like that. Maybe he would want to for like a short vacation like maybe one week but I wouldn’t be like let’s go there for like three months

36:19.71 Emil A. That makes sense.

36:34.30 Emil Yeah.

36:36.80 xinyixan So if I want to do that I think there would be some sort of like there would be some sort of like planning around this but he understands that like I need to go see the world and he wants to as well if he’s just not as like action oriented on that front.

36:50.30 Emil No I Just because like in my relationship is pretty much the similar dynamic just swap the people. Um and I felt like it wasn’t fair for me to place that person in an environment that their happiness or unhappiness. Was solely centered around me because it was a decision. They didn’t make like inevitably it comes down to them to say yes, right? and they’re they’re buying the ticket but like I don’t know what it is and maybe it’s just like a tick or something that I have but when I thought about it. It really felt like I was like oh man like I’m carrying the burden of this decision.

37:08.71 xinyixan E. Right.

37:26.13 Emil Um, because like if they’re not having fun like that’s kind of on me. Um, and for like a friend. It’s something for someone. You don’t know. It’s definitely like a lot easier for a partner or someone you see like really seriously and really romantically I felt like there’s a lot more burden with that decision.

37:44.71 xinyixan Um, yeah.

37:46.50 Emil Not in like a bad way but like I really wanted to make sure that it wasn’t just willy nilly. It wasn’t just like I want to go because I want to like play around at a beach for a month like it wasn’t stuff like that. It was like hey like I’m there to and I felt like there’s no good. It was much harder to find ah a good read. Not a good reason but just like. Like how do I approach this So It’s really cool that like you guys had like a little bit more of a give and take in that Regard. Just super interesting.

38:05.69 xinyixan Right. I I think like really like something important to note here is like understanding your non-negotiables like upfront in a relationship and obviously you have to go through relationships to learn that about yourself. So I think that’s like.

38:25.43 Emil Um, yeah.

38:29.29 xinyixan The unfortunate part is that like people’s feelings will get hurt as like both yours and your like ex-partners or whatever but like it’s also important in like your personal development because like maybe you wouldn’t have realized how important it is you know for you to be able to travel and now the next like relationship if you.

38:42.81 Emil Fax.

38:46.58 xinyixan Look for one or if it like occurs. Naturally, you know that that’s like something you want to discuss upfront like like hey I really need to travel at least six months a year what will that look like are you okay with that would you travel with me are you okay with just you know, not traveling with me and then.

38:52.58 Emil Um, and.

38:55.63 Emil And.

39:04.61 xinyixan Yeah, like things like that. So I think I think ultimately you know what they say like everything happens for a reason. Um, so you know like now you know better next time.

39:07.48 Emil Um, so.

39:15.43 Emil Ah, for sure.

39:21.45 Emil Yeah, no I mean everybody has their journey right at the end of the day but I’m always curious because sometimes we get in our own heads in a certain mindset and it’s like basically I mean it kind of touches on to the idea of ah of a stranger but I’ll answer that question a bit later for sure. Um. But yeah, like inevitably you only have your own mind and your own frame of reference. So like the more people that you get a chance to chat with because the pandemic actually provided a lot of relationships that roughly had the same length. And a lot of people you chat with or are like oh couple months in or like all we’ve been together for like 5 years and like the 1 to 2 year Mark is such an interesting space because a lot of a lot of things can happen and I felt like this was a great time because a lot of people I was chatting with was there and and roughly the same time and I was like cool.

40:00.11 xinyixan Um, is me.

40:09.92 xinyixan E.

40:12.35 Emil Can I talk to you about my problem. So like yeah can I talk to you about mine I’m like heck yeah, like let’s figure it out like there’s been like a lot of like candidate exchanges whereas. Normally they’re like yeah that problem we’re over it or like what that’s a problem. We should think about this and you’re like yeah eventually.

40:21.51 xinyixan Um, yeah, ah.

40:30.79 Emil Um, otherwise normally I I don’t think I’d be as fixated on it but I was like everybody’s like roughly around the same time and I’m like let’s ask a couple questions. Ah.

40:38.89 xinyixan Right? I right? kind of pivoting of it is there anything you’d like to wrap up before the end of this year

40:51.14 Emil Oh my god a lot. Um, so I usually do like quarterly goals and it sounds formal but really, it’s just like ah it’s somewhere between like not writing something down every day and not a year because a year might be too long or you might like write stuff that’s super lofty. Um, so I might have mentioned this but I’ve been playing like dungeons and dragons for like maybe 10 years now so I’ve been running a campaign for like crap 4 years April I think it’s like the fourth year of me running this campaign so we had something that we were running. And then we decided we’re like hey let’s continue it and I was like listen guys if I’m gonna continue it I’m gonna write it like I’m gonna publish this module I’m gonna publish this thing so I’ve been working on it for maybe like a year and a half probably closer to 2 by the by April it’ll be about 2 years So one of the things that I want to do. And luckily I was having a a good chat with a couple friends about this is originally I was going to publish the book all as like 1 big module like 250 pages art. Everything style da da da da like all the bells and muscles and my friend was like dude why are you doing that. Why don’t you just like publish 1 chapter at a time. So. We’re currently wrapping up what I think is like the second. Well what I know to be the second chapter and it’s taken a lot more time than I thought um and so what I want to do before something I want to wrap up before the year is done is I want to publish like the first 3 chapters of this book.

42:26.19 Emil Um, and really get a chance to dip my toes into that community because I think like down the line is something that is a hobby of mine but I always wanted to be a part of um, not just like as watching stuff or watching content creators. But. Making the the transition to true like content creation and making ah making a name for myself as a storyteller rather than like in-person people that I meet being like I’ll tell you the story of this person. This is kind of like a little bit more substantial as there is like a book tied to it. There’s artwork tied to it. There’s a lot of things. But yeah, that’s something that I I don’t know if I’d finished the entire book to be honest, but if I could publish those 3 chapters. Um I think that would be like absolutely amazing I would like die happy at the end of the year like I don’t know I would like ah like celebrate the year like super happy. Um.

43:19.22 xinyixan Um, yeah.

43:22.28 Emil But it’s actually like a really good question like I’m curious like what what is something gets like we’re now what we have two months ish left is just something that you thought you’d accomplish by the end of this year and you haven’t.

43:26.74 xinyixan Um, yeah.

43:35.90 xinyixan Not necessarily I think like I I just love goal setting and um I just love goal setting and I also create monthly goals. So I like you I think it’s like better than like every every day. Um I think I feel like.

43:36.39 Emil Sweet. Yeah. Um, yeah, um.

43:51.90 xinyixan Every three months I would kind of lose I don’t know I Just like the monthly if I did quarterly and then I would probably break it into months like going with the quarterly goals too. Um I’ll loop back to your question ah to answer your question but are you self- publishing your books or how you.

43:55.72 Emil Um, yeah.

44:08.90 xinyixan Going around publishing them.

44:09.39 Emil Ah, yeah, so it’s a little complicated but basically there’s a company called wizards of the coast and they own the ip of let’s say this book the first book and so they have a site called Dm’s guilds and the Dm’s guild has ah is the only site on the internet. Has a license with wizards of the coast. Um, so to use their ip you have to publish there and oh boy am I using their ip because I’m definitely using all the characters that they made added my own and ah made a whole like interesting honesty, a much better story than the original thing that they made.

44:28.83 xinyixan Okay.

44:46.33 Emil Ah, but it is what it is so that’s kind of where that’s going to be um and then how that may look like oh God No idea I still have to figure that out. Um I’m not a art guy but like whole boy do I have to make a have to make a lot of artistic decision. Ah.

45:02.48 xinyixan Um, okay, this makes a lot of sense for why you were talking about leg becoming an art director like it’s tied to this project. Okay.

45:08.73 Emil Yeah, yeah, like styling stuff. It’s a lot of and even like managing artists like having people create art for you which is super cool because like for me and like a friend group. It’s it’s like it’s so amazing when some person thought one day like when you were a kid you think up about fantasy things or like who you want to be like probably like when I was a kid I was like yeah I want to be like ash catch him like that was freaking awesome like if I could be like doing that that was amazing right? So as an adult we don’t get a chance to flex that like kid freedom or kid creativity.

45:44.23 xinyixan He.

45:45.65 Emil And like having a character that you create and having like amazing artwork for it is so cool because it’s back to that idea that comes into reality like all this game is is a bunch of like make believe and some fricking scribbles on a piece of paper right? but to see the artwork like back at you, You’re like I thought of this person.

45:55.86 xinyixan Um, right.

45:59.90 xinyixan Right.

46:04.68 Emil And this person now I get a chance to see like they’re no longer ad here they’re in reality and I think like that’s the fucking coolest thing ever.

46:09.22 xinyixan Yeah, right though that is like that is really really dope. Um, so okay, answering your question things that I wanted to accomplish before the end of the year um we’re getting to the end of like October so this is like typically the time where I would like. Review the month like review October and then like set goals for November and my goals for like my goals have simplified a lot over the years because I’ve stopped like over studying my like standards so that I would like keep because I was tired of disappointing myself. You know like like I think there was.

46:28.12 Emil A.

46:39.12 Emil Um, oh yeah.

46:42.50 xinyixan Like a point in my life where I was like I will learn chinese to fluency from like I guess like yeah I guess to chinese the fluency in 1 year obviously that was like well if I moved to China maybe but I think I wasn’t um so my goals for October were like stretch every day i.

46:52.26 Emil Yeah, yeah.

46:59.50 Emil Nice.

47:01.24 xinyixan I think I was like at this point where I was like I want to stretch daily but like I would say that but like never do it So then I was just like just make this a goal and I have actually been able to do that and then I think another one I’m taking a look here is finding finding energy balance because I feel like.

47:05.26 Emil And.

47:18.31 xinyixan The past couple of months I’ve been really really tired and so I’m like what is what is like draining my energy and I know it’s more than just physical because it could be you could run into like emotional drains right? Social drains mental drains.

47:32.36 Emil So yeah.

47:32.95 xinyixan Physical drains right? and when you’re physically tired. It feels different when than when you’re mentally tired and like vice versa like you could be really mentally tired but like have physical energy to like do things so that’s been another one and then the last one was like I want to play so just kind of going along with this idea that you were.

47:44.61 Emil Ah.

47:47.44 Emil That want to play.

47:52.62 xinyixan Ah, that you were talking about in terms of like manifesting things from like yeah playing with the creativity of like being able to imagine and invent things and then like pull them out of like the metaphysical world into like the physical world. It’s something that I’ve been working on because actually like most of my childhood I was a digital Illustrator. So I used to do that like on the regular and I think after becoming an adult and Starting. Don’t be strangers as Well. I’ve done like less and less like digital illustration and just like general creative stuff and so there’s been a lot of like I want to bring that back into my life and then oh so.

48:21.27 Emil Oh. A.

48:29.12 xinyixan To be able to play more within my like friendships and stuff too so to be able to mix in creativity with my friendships like how can I integrate that as well. So it’s not quite like goals before the end of 2022 I feel like my entire mission for 2022 has been like learning to.

48:35.32 Emil On.

48:47.63 xinyixan Un-addictify myself from productivity because like you know what? what is the point I think like yeah, so anyways.

48:52.81 Emil And.

48:58.84 xinyixan I Need to ask you the question I ask everyone which is at what? Ah, how do you define a stranger and at what point do they transition from being one to not being one.

48:59.69 Emil And.

49:07.68 Emil Okay, so um I think I’m gonna go through this and luckily enough like it’s so great that I get a chance to like hear some of the podcasts before I hop on this one. So I get to be like okay I can’t answer it this way I have to answer differently. So.

49:19.84 xinyixan A.

49:22.55 Emil I’m gonna I’m gonna go about it in the way that I kind of illustrated and I and I think honestly gets back down to mindset. It gets back down to what what your frame of references in your world and again we are only in our own mind for so long. A stranger in my opinion is someone that. You don’t like consider their existence like in in your mind you are kind of you. The only person you really understand, you’re really the only person you know and I think the transition becomes once you start realizing that that person isn’t like I don’t want to say like an npc like a non-player character or like some sort of gamified term like that. But it like transitions from like someone that you don’t know how their brain works to actually understanding how their brain works and take it from someone who has talked to probably a thousand plus people um and has cold read maybe around 300 people cold reading is like. Take a look at a person and you attribute all their personalities all their emotions like very quickly so I’ve had to do that a lot to break the ice very often. So I think that that transition isn’t necessarily converting them from a stranger to a non-stranger but it’s. Actually including them be like I understand how you think that’s when you’re like wow okay, that’s no longer stranger anymore. That’s somebody. That’s I may not like even but I respect and I know um and like that to me is like the biggest thing and as an adult it gets kind of weird because you can’t approach people. Well.

50:55.75 Emil Okay I take that back I’ve been doing that a lot here. So like I approach people I’m just like hey how’s going like what’s going on. Um because you kind of have to um, but yeah I think that’s like that’s where the the line is between the 2

51:10.74 xinyixan Yeah I Um the note on understanding how people think I feel like that can be kind of daunting like how deeply do you need to understand how someone thinks to be able to consider them not a stranger.

51:23.72 Emil I think part of it is. It’s a respect factor. So like there’s a lot of unfortunately we live in an age where there’s a lot of pitchforks and fires on the internet where if you say the wrong thing people will attempt to really ah, take your name through the dirt. Um, instead of trying to understand you and I think that you do that for a stranger I was almost in ah in a fight once in my own home actually and the guy actually never wanted to fight me because he knew me he had fought other people that were there. Um, because he didn’t know them but he took 1 look at me and because he knew and he understood where I was coming from. He was like yeah I’m not going to like touch this guy because I don’t treat him like a stranger and sometimes that’s the difference. Um, it can be daunting**. And it isn’t easy, but the people that make it worth your time will try to understand you because it goes hand in hand with value. You can’t value someone if you don’t know someone and if you keep considering them a stranger. They’re like npcs their background** characters and not everybody’s the main character like I’m not going to lie. Anything could happen to you at any time in your life. We travel around. We sometimes go to dangerous areas. You are not a main character by any means you are not protagonist. You don’t got plot armor you don’ got stuff stuff can happen. You can get robbed anything could happen in the moment you remove that and the moment you understand that everybody has their own story to.

52:56.14 Emil That’s when you can actually stop treating them like a stranger stop start treating them like a person because the moment you don’t you are living in a very lonely world. Um, and that’s not something I would wish on. Probably the most hated person in my life and I don’t have very many people that I truth truthfully Hate. Um, so like yeah I would never want to live that way. Oh that would suck. Ah yeah.

53:23.70 xinyixan Yeah, um, I feel like your example regarding the the near fight that happened in your home was really really interesting. Um, so thanks for sharing that? ah.

53:33.20 Emil Yeah, was a sketchy situation. Um, yeah.

53:38.65 xinyixan Um, what where did these numbers come from the 1000 versus 300 like the 300 people that you had to co-read like where did these numbers come from.

53:44.91 Emil So yeah, yeah I mean I moved around a lot. Um, and I think there is a point in every guy’s like life where you have to know how to approach like women in general and if you’re born with skills or talent. You can kind of like get away with it.

54:05.39 Emil Um, I was luckily or unluckily enough not to be born with those skills so I had to learn so you you come up with creative ways really to connect with people that to be honest, don’t like playing dungeons and dragons don’t like reading fantasy books don’t like software development. So you find little things that instead of like trying to be like oh that person isn’t valuable to me I’m like if you don’t see value make value crack a joke try something say something that’s been on your mind for a while and that’s where like the numbers come from and it’s also because I travel like. Honestly, like 1 of the things I would have loved to do I would definitely recommend checking out this like Youtube channel is called social animal this guy travels around just like motivates people to go approach people and it’s just like so cool like sometimes it just walks up and has a conversation and I think that those numbers kind of. Extend from me wanting to like if I see somebody. That’s a little bit unsure and I see a lot of guys that might be older than me or younger than me and they’re kind of a little worried about this I’m like dude do you have to this. We don’t live in a world where it’s fair. You have to approach people because unfortunately I’ve lived it and that’s where the numbers come from. Because sometimes people were like well have you done it I’m like dude I’ve been doing it every day. Trust me, it’s not easy. So when I so come up with this. They’re like okay that sounds like a reasonable number I’m like a million people now nobody knows a million people but like a thousand. Heck yeah, have I had to had a lot of conversations that are pretty bad. Heck yeah, has that numbered.

55:26.73 xinyixan Ah.

55:31.78 xinyixan Um.

55:32.16 Emil Pretty high. Yeah, but sometimes people respect the fact that you’re very candid about it and by me saying hey I failed 137 jobs before I got my current job people are like wow like that’s so specific you can’t be lying like right like like but. Just’s like I know because I updated it every day so it’s stuff like that where people are like but all right. This guy’s gried and I’m like yeah trust me I’m failing a lot.

55:50.96 xinyixan Um, yeah.

56:00.98 xinyixan Ah, ah, what are your some of your pro tips for um, for being able to create value and connect with people considering that you’ve had a lot of practice and you had to like learn.

56:12.67 Emil So and it’s something that I was learning recently. There’s a certain um like I go out a lot to let’s say like bars or clubs and it’s very easy to not care about the people around you and so you can look around and be like well that person looks like this way. So I’m going to judge them making value. Is overcoming that initial judgment and I’m heavy on the j in the the Myers-briggs so I have to deprogram that from me style I could be like well you know what I like her earrings. Let’s just say hey I like your earrings nothing more That’s all I want to do and sometimes like that could make their day. Like could be like hey wait where are you going I’m like no, that’s really all I want to say I like oh well, where are you from? Where’s this da da da and you start a conversation with someone um part of it is also understanding that you have value to and the moment you chat with someone you’re going to start seeing that. And sometimes people won’t but a lot of people will and when you’re unafraid to say hey I don’t know if we like the same stuff but hey what color is your doorknob and like why the are you asking me this question. They’re like I don’t know because why not like because like it would be a nice icebreaker. Because it would be like hey do you think a beach could be made of all rock. Is it still a beach or can it only be a beach if it’s made of sand and like people like what the why are you thinking about this I’m like I don’t know I think about a lot of things. So like that’s where it’s like value because I don’t care.

57:45.73 Emil Necessarily about trying to get something out of the person I’m really there for conversation and if that happens to a line is something amazing 11 on ten if it happens to be that I get to know the color of some person’s doorknob cool I’m like that’s the question I decide to ask it. That’s the answer I got like you got me. Um.

58:05.32 xinyixan Um.

58:05.70 Emil Because like I think a lot of people have programmed responses you ask somebody how your day is they’re like good and I’m like no really and then you see their shoulders go from this to drop and they’re like well actually this happened and I’m sitting there in a line of Starbucks for like 4 minutes as somebody’s like tell me about the day. And I’m just like oh that’s so cool like what’s this going on. So that’s that’s where the value can come from and the value doesn’t have to be just for you. The value could have just been for the other person kind of like somebody was like my roommate in Argentina and seviia was like yeah you have to generate karma points do good things you generate karma points I don’t believe in the karma stuff.

58:34.94 xinyixan Um, know.

58:43.86 Emil Um, but I was kind of like yeah, it’s just do good to do good. That’s it.

58:48.84 xinyixan Yeah, well I Love flat. We need more people like you so freaking. Yeah, it’s very optimistic because I think at the end of the day. Um I feel like the theme of this conversation is like.

58:50.30 Emil I was so scattered rain I was like do this this do this to this to this I don’t know anything works just try anything.

59:05.76 xinyixan You know, um, who cares about failures because like we’re going to learn from it. So like the more you fail or the more you try and and then potentially fail because you’re trying a bunch of different things like you also statistically increase your like success rate too. So yeah I love it.